Accessible Disruption - Strategy Table

What is change and how to people deal with it
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Tahira Endean: [00:00:00] You know, change doesn't happen without someone having an idea. And then they need to engage people in that idea and get them to believe

Ryan Hill: if we find ourselves giving up, because I said so, answer, that's a, that should be a trigger for us to reevaluate.

Anthony Vade: Ask the question, how intelligent am I? Based on my ability to adapt to change,

Podcast Host: the world is changing. For most human beings, change is uncomfortable and challenging to address. Whether you are a startup working on agile processes or a mature organization, navigating change with existing complex structures, the mindset and skills to adapt has never been more vital. The team from the strategy table want to help the wider world understand the need and approach to meaningful and impactful change management, helping organizations navigate disruption and make change accessible to [00:01:00] everyone.

This is accessible disruption.

Anthony Vade: Welcome to another episode of Accessible Disruption. I'm one of your hosts, Anthony, co-founder of Strategy Table, and joining me as always are my fellow co-hosts and co-founders, Tira and Ryan. Today's episode, we are going to take a look at change. We're gonna dive a bit deeper into what exactly is change and what do we need to have in mind when we start to look at addressing change as an organization.

And as change makers, I'm gonna ask both of you to kick us off with your favorite quote around change, or maybe two. I'll give you my two favorites. I like the old quote, change is as good as a holiday. 'cause I love to go on vacation and I'm about due for another one. And the other one, my grandmother always would ask me [00:02:00] every time we went out anywhere.

Did you change your underpants? I'm not sure how useful that was really to, you know, me progressing through life. But I can tell you, I guarantee they're always clean. So to kick us off, what's your favorite quote? Let's go with Ryan first.

Ryan Hill: All right. I narrowed it down to about seven, but I'll pick to the two From respectable past presidents from the United States.

Two different perspectives. Uh, works in, I guess in harmony, the first being Kennedy. Who quoted as saying change is the law, and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future. So I like those again, like I think the previous episode we talked a little bit about reactive versus proactive change, uh, and being stubborn and fighting against it.

And I think that it's a recipe for disaster. You know, we can, we wanna live in the past. Uh, we're gonna miss the opportunities before us, and then we're gonna continuously be reactive. Uh. [00:03:00] To build upon that. President Barack Obama is quoted as saying that change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time.

We are the ones that we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek, which I think puts the onus back on us as the individuals. You know, we can identify the problem, we can see that there needs to be a change, but are we willing to be the disruptor? Are we willing to lean into that and bring others along with us?

It's our responsibility. You know, if you see the see the need for change, you need to make the change.

Tahira Endean: Let just follow up with what Winston Churchill said. So we did PEs. Yes. The Pess sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. So I don't, I'm not sure that it's that black and white necessarily, but I do think that, you know, certainly there is a worldview where it is, you know, if change is hard, then we're just, we're we're very resistant to it, and oh, it just feels like too much trouble.

Whereas if we do adopt an attitude of. Let me look at [00:04:00] that through my optimist eyes or through my curious eyes and am slightly more open to what the possibilities might be with this change, then we can start to get people through that messy middle of change.

Ryan Hill: I had no idea that Winston Churchill was stoic, but that does sound an awful lot like Marcus Aurelius is the obstacle, is the way, you know, quote that.

I think a lot of practicing stoics. Really lean into

Anthony Vade: That's interesting. We've seen a big rise in stoicism, uh, especially in a post pandemic world. And, and there's a whole episode just in that, uh, around understanding change with, with that lens. Um, but so perhaps we won't quite jump down that rabbit hole yet.

There's been many other quotes that have been shared and one around this idea of. Change before you have to, uh, you can take on the change before it becomes, as we mentioned in our title and, and the last episode before [00:05:00] that change becomes disruptive, proactive change as Ryan has shared multiple ch. But I can tell the listeners and those who know me well and certainly.

The two of you have seen this Change is natural for me. In fact, I want change. I, I seek it out actively, and it's a natural state to be in change if change isn't happening. In fact, I'm more uncomfortable because of my experience through life, my willingness to go through change, and I think some biology in the way my brain works, it seeks out novelty more than.

Perhaps a typical person would, but with that in mind, I've also seen over the last decade of walking into, uh, executive boardrooms helping consult into organizations that for the vast majority of typical humans, change is incredibly hard. So if we recognize that changes kind of inevitable and part of the natural process, which we may need to unpack a bit, why is change so hard for people?

Tira, what's [00:06:00] your experience with other people navigating change and how has that informed your perspective on what change is and what it offers us?

Tahira Endean: What change offers us is the reality of growth and growth is gonna be, is it constant? And we, we simply can't get away from that. So everyone is gonna approach it differently.

And it is, it's very easy to be comfortable. So if, if we look at organizational change specifically, you know, it's, if we're already dealing with all of the other things that have to happen in life, when it feels like, oh, one more thing has to be done to be different, it's one more thing I have to learn or one more thing I have to deal with.

That can be seen as just one more thing and it's can be seen as being too difficult and I don't wanna do that. Whereas if we aren't willing to make changes and to be adaptable and to be flexible with how things go forward, we're not just simply not gonna get very far. You know, I think we are working, as I have like you in many organizations, [00:07:00] helping them navigate how they're going to bring new ideas forward.

It really is about helping. Those leaders really think about the messaging and the tools that we can use to bring people along with us. And it's, it, it's important for them to then understand that everyone is different and you know, you said you're, you know, you're not typical. And I think one of the other things we're seeing a lot of now is, you know, we have what we call neurotypical neurodiverse, and these are terms that are becoming more comfortable for people as they should be, because it's ultimately just understanding that.

Everyone is different and change is inevitable. And how do we bring those to the reality of change? Being inev inevitable in ways that are navigatable for different types of comfort levels with change.

Ryan Hill: Change is hard. But what is hard is subjective. And I think it goes back into, uh, the fact that things like neurotypical and neurodivergent, you know, that's a spectrum.[00:08:00]

Quality. Right? Uh, and before those terms became as commonplace as they are now, there were measures out there that helped kind of highlight that as communication tools. The one that comes to mind is that Curin adaption innovation inventory, which kind of classified it, not neurotypical, uh, neurodiverse, but are you an adapter or are you an innovator?

And the interesting thing about that was, again, it was a, it was a spectrum. So I. And that inventory trend very high on the innovator side, but I'm not the most high. So someone that has a higher innovator score than me, the few out there I'm going to struggle with change that they might find easy. But I, because I trend so high on the innovation side, I find a lot of changes, a lot easier than a lot of my peers.

Uh, in the military, the average is somewhere around like the. Mid, mid eighties to high nineties. Uh, and which is strongly in the adapter, uh, camp. Uh, and [00:09:00] I'm a 1 44, so I'm way off the reservation for the military. Uh, so there's a lot of times where I wanna do change and they're just like, why? Why? Why are we doing this?

There's no reason it's not broke. Don't fix it. But then there are a few times where someone will bring something to me and I struggle to see the vision. And I think that has to, it's very subjective, you know, change is hard as a whole. But what is hard for each individual is going to be very, very difficult to pinpoint.

Anthony Vade: Let's take this opportunity to take a short break now and hear from some of our sponsors, but of course, if you want to hear this ad free along with extended versions, access to our book club and the chat community, you can visit strategy table.co. Or click on the link in the description. We'll be right back.

Podcast Host: Our world is changing. For most human beings, change is uncomfortable and challenging to [00:10:00] address. Uh, keeping up in a competitive business environment requires confidence in your team's. Adaptability, leaders are expected to lead adoption initiatives, evolve team members skills, and build resilience with intentional change management strategies.

But even the most seasoned leader or executive. Can find it challenging to get things started on the right foot and in the right direction. Engage with Strategy Table to kickstart your organization's change management and continuous improvement initiatives. Address and elevate your team's agility and build a confident innovation culture.

Make your team feel and believe in the shared responsibility supporting each other bravely and boldly into the future no matter what it has in store. We are not your average consultants. We are skilled guides helping you elevate your team's thinking and turn it into impactful doing. Find more information@strategytable.co.[00:11:00]

Anthony Vade: So before the break, we will try to describe the way that we go through change in an emotional state. What else do we need to think about when we're talking about change and understanding its effects on emotion? I

Tahira Endean: think it's also, it's about that idea of control, right? So it's like, are we driving the bus?

Are we in the back of the bus? Are we kind of somewhere in the middle just looking for our seatbelt? So, you know, it's, that's I think another reason that, um, change can be really uncomfortable. So we know that, you know, it's going to, there's gonna be some difficulty and some challenges. That it is inevitable, but it's also that what is our ability to control the change that's happening or to contribute to the change to make it a successful, and we could call it an innovation because that might be a more comfortable word for people.

Are we able to help drive an innovation forward? Sounds. More exciting than, oh, it has to [00:12:00] change. You know, so it's, sometimes I think it's also change is also about how we message it and approach it, and then can deliver that to inspire people to take it forward.

Anthony Vade: We had an awesome conversation in the last episode where we looked at change as a, as a journey with different contributors along a different path with different reactive and proactive steps that can be taken, uh, along that.

I wonder if we look at this perspective of change again, and we always come back to this perspective, how might that perspective of change differ for individuals along the pathway? Are they likely to feel a certain way or perceive the change a certain way at the start and and what's the likelihood of change?

Occurring as they go along that journey, do they get more confident, less confident? And what might be some of the things you've seen happen in the past?

Ryan Hill: Inevitability is a very familiar [00:13:00] feeling. In the military. There's a lot of things that we are told are going to happen or that we're going to do with respect to changing initiatives, changing priorities, and there's not a whole lot we can do to push back against that, especially if it's a national policy issue.

Uh, so I think there's a little bit of, it's outside of our control, so we just go with the flow. But I think the more often you experience that, the more resentments you're gonna start building up. And one of the ways that I've seen that get reduced and sometimes completely overcome is addressing the fears or the resistance is head on, just th thrusting them into reality.

Sometimes there's a resistance of, well, this change is gonna force me onto the sideline, or marginalize me or make me irrelevant. And if that's not true and we just need to pull people along and show them that they're still valuable, that they're, it doesn't change their contributions, it's not going to be to their detriment.

I think that if we remove some of the fear that comes with the [00:14:00] lack of control or the sense of inevitability, uh, we start to overcome that resistance. We start to counter the narrative. This can get very difficult in today's day and age, especially at like a national policy level with. So much misinformation and politicizing of things that shouldn't be political issues necessarily, but they are 'cause they're talking points.

So that becomes a larger issue at scale. But within a organization or a team or a smaller group, I think it's a lot easier for us to have a candid conversation and not debate and argue, but to dialogue and discuss and to validate, you know, someone's fears are valid and it's up to us to. Help show them that we can value and validate their perspectives, uh, even if they're not a hundred percent correct and then we correct them with them.

But it's not a, haha, you're wrong. I'm right. It's, it's a collaborative group effort and it's, it's a matter of empathy, it's a matter of connection, and those are skills that are very difficult to build. I

Tahira Endean: think it's, you know, this idea of being valued. [00:15:00] So there's, you know, the two, there's this sort of two theories.

One is the singular perspective theory. It's all about me versus the collective value system. And part of that is cultural. You know, certainly in North America we are raised more with a singular perspective theory, whereas other cultures around the world are raised with more of a collective value system where, you know, families live together in multi-generational homes where.

Businesses are run by multi-generations of a, of a, of a family. Quite often where you do things, you, when you, you don't think of the yourself first, you think of the group first. That's a very cultural piece of it, and so I think that's also a lar large part of change management is understanding those two very big differences.

Because you can individually make people feel like they're valued. Contributors, take away the uncertainty you just mentioned, Ryan, because you are ultimately living in the military in what should be a collective value system, but you're coming. In from a singular perspective, [00:16:00] theory thinking because of how we've fundamentally been raised in this culture.

And so I think that that is a huge part of change management too, is understanding that cultural significance of where people are coming from. With those that those types of perspectives. And where does the collaboration and collective fit on their scale of comfort? You can't say, I'm gonna give you this big change, and your future is certain.

That doesn't make any sense. So what you can say is, we're going to go through a change journey together, and on the other side, this is what it might look like in order for it to look in its most equitable, enjoyable space. Come along with us and be part of this, and not everyone's always gonna be, I think, as open to that messaging.

It's,

Anthony Vade: it's a tricky thing. Change. There's no way around it. I think that can be a big challenge for a lot of leaders trying to lead change initiatives that they're so [00:17:00] caught in the end goal. They believe in the end goal so much that they forget to touch base with their team along the incremental steps to that end goal, and they fall into the trap of just reminding constantly.

Keep messaging. We're gonna get to the end goal. We need to get to the end goal. And they forget to pause from time to time and check in with the team and say, how do you feel about the journey we're on in this moment? Are you feeling vulnerable? Are you feeling isolated? Are you feeling threatened by your ability to deliver on your side of my big?

Aspirational vision and just to slow down a bit and see where the other team members are on that journey is a really, really valuable step. I got a feeling we're gonna start to unpack some of this collaborative culture elements and being able to be vulnerable and share perspectives like that in in, in future episodes.

But we keep harken back to this [00:18:00] perspectives collaboration that leads to innovation sort of approach to to, to addressing things. How can we make this idea of change being hard yet accessible if we approach it the right way? And how can we give the listeners something actionable that they can take away from this episode about this topic of change.

Tahira Endean: So I have a great quote. I just found another one that I think is gonna, is quite, uh, relevant for this, which is to accomplish great things we must not only act, but also dream, not only plan, but also believe, which is Anatoli France. And I think that this is, you know, change doesn't happen. Without someone having an idea, and then they need to engage people in that idea and get them to believe.

I would say for me that the thing for people to take away this episode would be that change is yes, it is inevitable, but it's not impossible. And if you have an idea for a change, [00:19:00] understand and clarify why this change is gonna be necessary and. Also consider how you're gonna bring, bring people along with you.

How are you framing it so that people can understand why this change is gonna be the step you need to go forward? I.

Ryan Hill: Part of this that I'm most passionate about is understanding what is good leadership, right? And then again, it's not formulaic necessarily, but there are some hallmarks. Uh, but I think one of the things that comes to mind is from Jocko Willink, who wrote the book, extreme Ownership.

He's a Navy Seal, and he said something along the lines of, you have to be able, as a leader to communicate the why to the point where every person underneath you understands the why. They don't have to agree with the why necessarily, but they need to understand why. If your followers are asking, why are we doing this, then you have failed as a leader right off the bat.

'cause you have not communicated clearly and effectively enough for them to understand why they're [00:20:00] doing what they're doing. And you as a follower. 'cause most of us who are leaders are also in some capacity followers. There might be the few exceptions out there, but many of us, uh, there's always a bigger fish.

You as a follower. Who also leads, others have a responsibility to continue to ask the question why? Until you get a satisfactory answer from your leadership. Now, sometimes that can be hard because we have a lot of folks that have for better or for worse, succeeded by being dictators of tyrants. It doesn't matter.

You know, my least favorite question as a kid, uh, when I asked my parents why was because I said so. That's why if we find ourselves giving a, because I said so answer, as a leader, that's a, that should be a trigger for us to reevaluate. And reframe. It might make sense to us in our mind, but if we can't articulate it, like we're never going to overcome the fear, the lack of control, the inevitability, the resistance, because nobody wants to do things without understanding why they're doing them.

So they can understand their, their why, their piece of the [00:21:00] overall picture. That's half the battle.

Anthony Vade: What a powerful way to finish this episode. And, and I don't wanna ruin it by talking too much here, but I can tell you the next episode's coming up, we're gonna look a little bit more at. This perspective side of change and, and understanding how along that change journey that your team's going on their perspectives may change and adapt and may shift the success or failure of your initiative in either direction based on how much you understand that perspective.

I will leave you with one of my quotes, seeing as we started with quotes. Stephen Hawking, uh, was quoted as saying, intelligence is your ability to adapt to change. So here's my question. For all the listeners out there in your call to action, ask the question, how intelligent am I based on my ability to adapt to change?

And we'll see you on the next episode of Accessible Disruption.[00:22:00]

Podcast Host: Accessible Disruption is written and spoken by Tahir and Dean Ryan Hill and Anthony Vade. All content is developed in collaboration with the team at Strategy Table Podcast Production by Experience Design Change Inc. An association with the change lead network. Find more information@strategytable.co.